More on “Pamphlets”
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking the last few days (yeah, smartasses, it hurts) — On the calling of comic books “pamphlets” issue, Joey Manley and SHaenon Garrity decided to throw their 5cents in… and Shaenon showed just how passive agressive she can be. She said in the comments:
“I try not to use the term “pamphlet” because it makes nerds cry tears of impotent rage, but sometimes there’s no better term.”
Oh, you TRY not to use it because of that? But yet you typed that into a reply to a piece that would be going on a COMIC BOOK website. Way to go, moron-o-thon. And way to re-offend anyone who is offended by the term in the first place, because according you , surely anyone who cares about comics not being demeanded by that terminology MUST be a “nerd crying tears of impotent rage”— Bravo!
Now, Joey Manley actually can take a ribbing without punching back. In fact, he gave me something USEFUL– in the fact that he told me where he heard it, saying he borrowed it from Warren Ellis. Indeed, Warren has used it. He may have started it– and he should probably re-think that term. Here’s what Warren said and it shows why HE uses the term pamphlet:
[Pause] Why?
[Pause] Because we’re still in the period of change. Where half of the stores are ready for original graphic novels, but the other half or more are still relying on the monthly grind - they need their 32 page pamphlet. It is a simple as that. There’s a lot of people who haven’t yet bought an original graphic novel, who will buy a 32 page pamphlet. It’s because we’re in the middle of the time of change, we’re in the middle of this flux, and we have to carefully build a bridge from one end of it to the other.
Do you want to abandon Pamphlets?
YeahEntirely?
Yeah.
So, there you have it. He used that term because he wants to sell more Graphic Novels. And the term “pamphlet” is meant to say “hey, these are floppy little things, the graphic novel is AUTHENTIC BOOK” as if a COMIC BOOK isn’t a book or magazine at all….. And here he goes further into his explaination:
Do you feel that the extended serial format is viable in any context?
To ensure the continuation of certain age old franchises there will always be indefinite serial pamphlets. There is always going to be a Superman monthly, there is always going to be a Batman monthly, Spiderman, whatever. They will never go away entirely, but there is no reason why the entire industry should be based on that, nor the entire medium. I mean, just because there are Soap Operas on Television, does not mean that every television show has to be a Soap Opera.
I think that is a very NARROW view of the history of the COMIC BOOK. He’s basically saying there that there will always be the monthly thing because of DC and MArvel— but they didn’t start comic books…. COMIC STRIPS did.
I also believe that webcomic people don’t need to abandon the monthly or bi monthly comic book format, or revel in the demise of the comic book direct market as a win for them in webcomics. I get riled up about this, because I think it does WEBCOMICS wrong to the Comic Book audience. And Joey Manley, while having a column at the PULSE about webcomics, should probably think long and hard about how terms like this might come off to the readerships there. There’s probably a reason that 95% of the comments in his articles are from WEBCOMIC people and not the Comic Book fans in there. So, while trying to reach outside of his sandbox, he’s just moved his sandbox in. THINK JOEY! THINK!
Look at a creator like Jeffrey Rowland who is taking his daily comic and moving it to monthly installments (link). Surely those will be comic books. Jeffrey calls them “American Manga”, heh, which I’m sure is a nifty way to sell more books to a lot of kids who call their comics MANGA now. While that TOO makes me cringe, because it feels like people are afraid of the term “comic book” and want it to die…………I don’t know if Jeff did that strategically or he’s just goofing around with the term– but see, here’s a guy putting out a regular book, surely he wouldn’t say “BUY MY MONTHY PAMPHLETS!” — and if he did, I reckon he wouldn’t have many takers… and HERE is why….
I found an extensive blurb on this via Wikipedia with some thoughtful comments from Todd Vanderbeek. SEE ALL OF IT HERE.
Todd says:
But it isn’t a marketing term; it’s an anti-marketing term. It represents the POV of those who think they’re too short and inconsequential, not those who actually publish or read them.
It definitly IS an anti-marketing term. Used to help promote another product or agenda. THIS is where the word originated in terms of it going along with comic book. And, it only cements my feelings toward the word. It’s also “anti-marketing” in the way that when I hear people use that word, it makes me NOT want to support the products of that person or whatever they’re involved with.
Anyway, that’s enough of that. Thanks to Joey for pointing me in the right direction of the origin of the word. Getting passionate about this doesn’t make me a comic book nerd. In fact, I haven’t bought a regular comic in a LONG time, mostly because well, there are no comic shops near me, they all closed!. But we have the comic book direct market to thank for that. You know who’s comic I probably WILL check out? Jeffrey Rowlands. I’m curious to see how he’ll put out a regular book, and i’m sure it will be within an easy budget and easily buyable through paypal. And I’m sure he won’t have some complicated micropayment scheme setup where you have to jump through hoops to get it. 
It’ll just be regular comic book (american manga, pssh!) put out by a creator on his own. He is his OWN middleman.
THAT is exciting to me. Very exciting. The REAL future of comic books. Coming soon….
Recent Topics: comic books, comics, webcomics, Jack Kirby, Jeffrey Rowlands, Joey Manley, Shaenon Garrity, Warren Ellis
January 7th, 2006 at 9:14 am
I think even small things like this really amplify the divisions in the webcomics community. What I mean is, if we were all working in comics (or “pamphlets” if you are retarded), we would have differing opinions on what makes a good comic, but we’d all at least have something of an apperciation for the medium. Same if we were working in animation, or comic strips in newspapers… yes, we would have issues from time to time, but by and large, we would believe in what we were doing.
The problem with webcomics is that it brings together people from so many different backgrounds, and our vision of what “true comics” are varies. Myself, I grew up with comic books. I read X-Men and Batman, and later Sandman and Preacher and it inspired me to start writing in an attempt to break into comics. I was young, I wasn’t very good, but with webcomics, I found a way to develop and express myself. But then you have the people who wanted to make the next Calvin and Hobbes, or people who played games and wanted to make jokes about them, or the elitist “artistes”, or the Scott McClouds, or whatever… so we all don’t have the same appreciation for each other’s creative backgrounds and influences. Is that a bad thing? No, not really. Does that make it alright to degrade these influences? Absolutely not.
I agree with the point of pamphlet being used as an anti-marketing term. It IS being used to promote their own agendas, and it’s that sort of insecure maneuvering that is really keeping webcomics from growing. Not in popularity, but as a cohesive medium. Lets face it… so many factions of this community downright despise each other, because of our differing backgrounds.
And if these so-called leaders of our industry can’t even pretend to respect the rest of us comicbook loving schmucks, it just shows how far we really have to go.
January 7th, 2006 at 9:50 am
I think it all goes back the the public view that “comic books” are for children. And thusly once they hit the age where THEY are producing comic books, or related things in the industry, there is still this little voice in the back of their heads telling them that it is a children’s industry. And because they are proud of their work, and think it’s a very adult thing, they feel the need to justify what they are producing by putting down the “comic books” of children.
So they use terms like “Pamphlet” and “Graphic Novel” and other word choices to make the actual comic books of the world sound childish and outdated, while what they are making is new, mature, and important.
I might just be talking out of my ass here, but it makes sense to me.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:04 am
I’ll agree with the point that the term comic book is often associated with children, just as anything animated is considered a cartoon for kids. But generally, people who love and create comic books don’t really care about that sort of thing. Yes, the term “graphic novel” is used, and that’s fair. Pamphlet is a derogatory term though. Pamphlets are inconsequential pieces of paper to be used and discarded with no regard for the time spent creating them. People who know better and still use the term do so only to belittle the medium.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:20 am
The real problem with comic books, DJ, is that it’s very tough to find markets to sell them. The Direct Market (aka the network of local comic stores serviced by Diamond, FMI, and Cold Cut) has shown a strong resistance to comic books not put out by Marvel, DC, Image, or Dark Horse. Warren Ellis has done some research, and found that less than 20% of DM outlets order comics from indy publishers. Take a look at November’s sales charts here:
http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/Nov05charts.html
Are there comics on there that aren’t put out by the Big 4? Sure, but even then, most of them are licensed property books (Red Sonja, GI Joe, Friday the 13th, etc).
If the Direct Market doesn’t sell indy comic books, who will? Not Borders or B&N or Amazon. They don’t take “floppies” or “pamphlets” or whatever word you want to use. You’re left trying to move them off your website directly. Now, that can work, but you’ve got to factor in shipping, and that’s a tricky thing. Your audience is probably willing to shell out $3 for a comic book, but $3 + $3 for shipping? That’s a trickier deal. Not impossible, but tricky.
That’s why Manley et al love the “graphic novel” format; you can sell the book in more markets. Put your work in a package with a spine and an ISBN number, and you can sell it through Amazon and BN and bookstores. You’re not limited by sales to the DM and website only. Plus, “graphic novel” product has a longer sales cycle.
Also, humor-based comics tend to sell better in the GM format than in the comic book format. Look at the graphic novel list- there’s Twisted Toyfare Theatre int he top ten. Calvin and Hobbes and Peanuts hit the New York Times bestsellers lists for a long time this year. Get Fuzzy sells by the barrel. Bookstores know they can sell humor. DM stores don’t know what to do with humor comics- see any in the top 300?
In the end, I don’t think it’s anything more than economics that are prompting the comments from Manley et al. They’ve determined that it’s easier to sell their works with a spine on the side than with a staple. Comic books aren’t dead or dying, but that’s not really the issue. The issue is what format a creator should choose to maximize revenue for the material they’ve sweated blood and tears trying to make.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:26 am
Something very wrong is going on in the webcomic world. Artists are sniping about not being able to be critics (Fleen.com), arguments over pamphlets, books, booklets, graphic novels, fights over micropayments, etc. Enough already! I just want to read the strips I like and support them however I can. I wish all this infighting would stop and you all get back to writing, drawing, and amusing me and your other readers.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:29 am
This is for RichK…
Someone once told me that all women secretly hate each other. I think the same quote works if you sub in “webcomic creators” for ‘women”.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:38 am
What Ray Cornwall said.
Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com
January 7th, 2006 at 11:27 am
What RichK said.
I’m kinda sick of talking/thinking about all this crap.
If you’re a “fan” of webcomics in general, like there are fans of comic books who love to read the drama– i guess it’s fun to debate and talk about it… but yeah, it is getting old and tired.
January 7th, 2006 at 11:29 am
That’s what I love about you, DJ. Your high-minded ability to stay above the fray.
Joey
www.webcomicsnation.com
January 7th, 2006 at 11:51 am
pamphlet
January 7th, 2006 at 11:56 am
tim broderick = ass
January 7th, 2006 at 1:31 pm
Sorry if we’ve exhausted you on the point, DJ. I’m a business analyst, so this kind of stuff actually does make my mojo go, but I can understand that it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.
One addendum- just because there’s obstacles for selling a comic book to the DM doesn’t mean I think you shouldn’t do it. You obviously are quite passionate in your belief that a Yirmumah comic can sell, and I’ll never bet against an artist like you who’s not only funny but also strongly commited to his work.
Besides, nothing makes a fanboy laugh like good dick and Star Wars jokes. Whatever you do, you’ll get my money.
January 7th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Wow. Thanks for belittling my archive of work down to Star Wars and Dick Jokes man!
I bet you’re a KILLER business analyst.
January 7th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
I’m sure the idea that all webcartoonists hate each other is every whit as true as the idea that all women hate each other.
Coffman still hasn’t explained what I’ve said, beyond one use of the term “pamphlet,” to indicate my deep and abiding hatred for, er, pamphlet comics. But, hell, he thinks I care deeply about whether my word choice makes him cry, so obviously he doesn’t understand where I’m coming from. Let me try to explain.
First, I want to get one thing out of the way: nobody owes obeisance to comics in general or any particular format of comics, no matter how rich and storied the history of that format. When you start ranting about comics deserving “respect,” you cross into that Sad Fanboy territory where people get pissed at fans who call Superman “Supes” and hate “The Incredibles” because it makes cape jokes. There’s only one inanimate object I worship, and that’s the electric rainbow fiberglass icon of the Virgin of Guadalupe in my living room. Comics are fair game. Because, as Lea Hernandez (whom, as a webcartoonist and a woman, I secretly hate) says, sometimes comics need hurting.
Now. For several reasons, many of them not the fault of the format itself, monthly-style pamphlet comics are in trouble. They are sold almost entirely through direct-market comic-book stores, and those stores are fewer and poorer every year. The vast majority of pamphlet comics sell only to established fans; potential new readers seldom even see them. This situation came about mostly because of business decisions made throughout the comics industry in the 1980s and 1990s, although there are some other factors, like grocery stores and drugstores deciding to stop stocking pamphlet comics. (You know what hung on in these stores? Archie comics. Because they adapted their format to match what those stores wanted to stock: thicker, sturdier pamphlets with a slightly higher price.)
Sales to comic-book stores are monopolized by one distribution company, Diamond Comics. And Diamond has spent the past few years systematically discouraging small publishers and making things cushier for its two big clients, Marvel and DC. (Mind you, I don’t dislike these publishers. I’ve written for Marvel. I do, however, have a big problem with the Diamond monopoly and the short-sighted business practices that have forced the direct market into these narrow straits.) Diamond’s latest big move was the announcement that it would simply not ship any small-press comic that failed to get a certain number of preorders. This is bad for comic-book stores, as it means they won’t receive some of the comics they ordered, thus pissing off their customers. And it’s really bad for small-press cartoonists, especially new creators who aren’t going to sell Diamond’s required numbers right out of the starting gate.
This is why creators like the Foglios and Carla Speed McNeil are moving to a new model: online serialization, followed by trade-paperback collections. Is this the ideal form of Comics? Of course not. There is no ideal form; you have to take what technology and the marketplace make available. But I stand by the statement I made in The Beat’s year-end survey: Right now, the best places to find good comics are your local bookstore and your computer.
Like that’s a bad thing.
P.S. Disagree that traditional pamphlet comics are in trouble? Show your support for the format by buying the Marvel Holiday Special, featuring my story “Moleman’s Christmas,” drawn by the great Roger Langridge! You don’t get much more traditional than a Fantastic Four/Moleman comic, I tell you what.
January 7th, 2006 at 3:09 pm
That’s *one* way to conduct some damage control, I’ll give you that…
January 7th, 2006 at 3:23 pm
There’s nothing wrong with pamphlets. Thomas Paine wrote them. So did Ben Franklin. The French revolution was started by them.
January 7th, 2006 at 3:33 pm
Obviously, you didn’t read the whole entry, Nyx–
Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, Bob Kane and all the founding fathers of the comic book industry NEVER made PAMPHLETS. They made COMIC BOOKS.
If Warren Ellis or some other marroon wants to call the stuff they do, PAMPHLETS, so be it… but don’t belittle the audience with the propaganda.
January 7th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
I’m a decent business analyst, DJ. The paychecks don’t bounce, and that money goes towards my members subscription to your site.
And I wasn’t belittling you. If all your work was dick jokes and Star Wars, I wouldn’t spend the money for my membership. But your dick jokes and Star Wars jokes probably would sell quite well in the DM. (See, THAT’S what I was belittling- DM fanboys! Better now?)
Shaenon, I thought the reason that Archie sells in grocery stores was the fact that they negotiated a fantastic contract many years ago that secures them that space at the checkout line. Marvel and DC have both tried to get that checkout space, but just can’t penetrate the stranglehold that other publishers have on the space.
January 7th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Of course I was joking around about the dick jokes and Star Wars thing, Ray! C’mon man, I USED A WINKIE FACE, which is the universal symbol for I’M FUCKIN AROUND!– heh.
You’re right, i know plenty of people who’ve made pretty nice money with fart jokes, whores, alcohol, etc….
January 7th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
OH– and I want to say AGAIN, for anyone who skimmed my longwindedness…. I don’t buy comic books. I use to when there was a Direct Market shop nearby.
I thought I’d say DIRECT MARKET because if we keep calling it DM, some of the nerds around here might go “THERE ARE DUNGEON MASTER STORES!?” — hahaha…
But yeah, when all the shops dried up, I stopped buying. Every now and then I’ll pick up something randomly, and I’ll buy my friend’s books online or they send them to me for free IF THEY ARE REAL FRIENDS!!!! YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!
Please not the universal symbol I just used.
January 7th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
DJ, you and I should team up and do an ass pamphlet!
January 7th, 2006 at 5:15 pm
Have your people call my people and we’ll do it!
January 7th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
Hey DJ, you can still buy COMIC BOOKS even though there’s no good DIRECT MARKET stores around. I’ve been using Mailordercomics.com for 3 years, and they’re better than the best comics store I’ve ever used. GREAT discounts (up to 75% on some books and at least 32% on everything at the big publishers), fantastic customer service, and I think the owner has some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder that forces him to pack everything perfect.
(And they sell GRAPHIC NOVELS, TOO!)
And Bob Kane wasn’t really a founding father. You know Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson did all the hard work on Batman, right?
(Won’t argue Lee, Kirby, or Ditko a bit, though.)
January 7th, 2006 at 7:26 pm
Yeah– My bad on Bob Kane– for some reason his name popped when I was thinking of golden agers…
January 7th, 2006 at 8:13 pm
Have you ever heard of a comic pamphlet store? It’s a comic book. If you want to talk about a big comic book — like an anthology, or long-form story — it’s a graphic novel. Pamphlets are usually folded pieces of paper without staples. The only comic pamphlets I’ve ever seen are on airplanes.
January 7th, 2006 at 8:33 pm
You know, one can make the argument that pamphlet’s a poor term for a comic book.
pam·phlet Audio pronunciation of “pamphlet” ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pmflt)
n.
1. An unbound printed work, usually with a paper cover.
2. A short essay or treatise, usually on a current topic, published without a binding.
[Middle English pamflet, from Medieval Latin pamfletus, from Pamphiletus, diminutive of Pamphilus, amatory Latin poem of the 12th century, from Greek pamphilos, beloved by all : pan-, pan- + philos, beloved.]pamphlet·ary (pmfl-tr) adj.
[Download Now or Buy the Book]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
-
Emphasis on UNBOUND. Do staples count as binding?
January 7th, 2006 at 8:58 pm
As a former pressroom manager, I can say with a little authority that staples are a sort of binding. They are one of the two types of “stitch” binds in a bindery (the other actually resembling stitches.) The hard-cornered stuff you see on graphic novels is called “perfect bound”, IIRC. Most of the machines in a typical bindery are not unlike giant, assembly line staple guns or glue guns.
January 7th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
Sounds like Shaenon (who taught her mom to spell?!?) wasn’t happy that you caught her red-handed on her ignorance in regards to the history of comics, and rather than fess up and say, “Sorry for spouting off at the mouth just because I have a magical intarweb access clicky button that makes it so easy for me to spout my mouth off without doing any research first,” she decided to call you a crying nerd.
Dear God, I love it! Good job, Shann…er, Shaeon…um,..Sh…it. Fuck it. Your name is “Shit” now. Love ya. Bye.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:00 pm
Wait…. so now we’re saying that Shaenon doesn’t know her comics history? That’s something I’ve never expected to hear.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
I never expected the Spanish Inquisition, but then again, no one does.
There’s some debate as to whether or not its chief weapon is surprise, but I’ve never been able to follow that argument to its logical conclusion.
January 7th, 2006 at 10:58 pm
Wow.
I likes me the comic books. If we wind up calling them something else, big deal. “Comic Book” is kind of an odd term that doesn’t really describe what the item is.
But “Pamphlet” is even worse. It’s pretentious without being a better descripter. I’ll put up with “graphic fiction” or “visual story” or some such if we want to be pretentious AND descriptive.
So far there isn’t a good term to replace “Comic Book.” And “Pamphlet” sure as hell isn’t it.
January 8th, 2006 at 1:30 am
Hey, DJ, why don’t you try to be MORE contrary and generally obnoxious?
I’m sure you could win some sort of award.
January 9th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Note to Adam Black: I guarantee that Shaenon knows more about the history of comics than you, Mr. Coffman and probably anybody that visits this site on a regular basis. It’s a safe bet that nobody who’s been complaining about her contributions to comics has done even a fraction of what she’s done to advance the comics medium, and I’d bet that the loudest complainers have never joined the CBLDF or Friends of Lulu, and have never given a dime to or otherwise helped any comic-related non-profit organizations (ACTOR, the Cartoon Art Museum, MoCCA, Comic-Con International), either.
She’s also got more respect for the comics medium than just about anybody, as demonstrated by pretty much everything that she does, as opposed to just the occasional lip service provided by irritable fanboys who seem to think that griping about terminology is an invaluable contribution to society as a whole. The use of one term that you folks don’t care for hardly undoes everything that she’s done for comics, which, again, is almost definitely more than anyone who visits this site has ever done for the sake of comics.
For that matter, Shaenon’s certainly shown more respect for opposing opinions and the people spouting them off than any of you have shown her. The fact that all of this started because some guy that I’d only heard of before because someone hated his guts enough to write an angry bluegrass song about him couldn’t think of a better punchline to criticize Shaenon and Joey than to draw some skinny guy hitting poorly-drawn caricatures of them should have tipped me off that there was no room for intelligent debate here.
January 9th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
Andrew– are you done suckling Shaeonon’s breasts now, and uhm… whatever it is Joey likes to have done?
Well, I won’t get into a dick measuring contest over knowing my history of the comic book industry, but your guarantee is preposterous.
I’d be careful how you’ve blanketed your statements… there are a lot of well respected creators who visit here who will find you retarded and blabbering off at the mouth.
Good day!
January 9th, 2006 at 5:46 pm
What a class act. It’s a stroke of brilliance the way you misspelled Shaenon’s name, reduced my respect for her down to some sexual issue, then went for the hat-trick of calling me gay all in a single sentence (with a slam against the mentally challenged at the end, too). It’s a regular Algonquin Round Table around here, isn’t it? Hard to believe that you aren’t more widely respected in this industry…
Name one person who knows more about comics and their history than Shaenon who’s read your comic, and I might concede that I was exaggerating, but I’m 99% positive you’ll come up short (allowing for that 1% chance that R.C. Harvey accidentally read it once).
Nothing I said earlier is a knock on any “well-respected creator,” since none of them would be ignorant enough to attack Shaenon for no good reason whatsoever over a use of a term that most of them don’t even have a problem with in the first place.
Good day right back at you.
January 9th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
Hey– Andrew Faygrago— Your statement again shows just how moronic YOU are to judge my daily audience of around 10,000 real people a day. You need to seperate my words from the people who read here everyday–
You know what, I can name myself, but you asked for readers i guess, right? Well- two come to mind— Ernie Stiner. You might not know his name, but he’s had a pretty long career as a Comic book artist, for Marvel, etc…. Oh– lets see. Jim Rugg. Hands down. The guy knows his shit and we’ve been friends forever now.
And heck– someone who reads EVERY day is Al Nickerson, who likes to go on and on about Creator Rights, etc… those guys are just off the top of my head.
So yeah, dickless… don’t insult the audience. You can bring it to ME all day— but ninja, please be a LITTLE smarter with your own posts.
January 9th, 2006 at 7:31 pm
The day Andrew Farago stops suckling my breasts will be a sad, sad day indeed. I’m sure Joey feels the same way about all the hot gay sex he and Andrew enjoy whenever he’s in town.
Did you ever get around to arguing any of my points and/or explaining what I ever wrote that pissed you off in the first place? Lemme scroll up a sec and check… Nope. Okay, I guess I’m out of things to say.
Wait, I thought of something.
Pamphlet!
January 9th, 2006 at 8:33 pm
Oh you know– I just like getting nerds to show their true colors and get into a tizzy about what some cartoonist said.
Looks like it worked, you sheep.
January 10th, 2006 at 1:40 pm
Ah…it was all an elaborate piece of performance art. Got it.
January 10th, 2006 at 2:52 pm
You know what’s really funny? All the people who said about the nerds coming out and whining and you had to poke those nerds….
I think that’s what I just fucking did! I mean, I poked some nerds, they showed up, and more nerds showed up and defended other nerds.
Some real nerd love going on here.